This morning's show will deal with the issues of race and religion as they relate to Jeremiah Wright's comments, and Barack Obama's association with the Reverend Wright.
Feel free to use this post as a forum during the show, and throughout the day, and I will be glad to share your thoughts on the air as well as comment later here.
Today we will have Major Darren Mudge who has ministered as a pastor in South Africa as well as here in York, Pastor Michael Smith of York, and Reverend Ruth Harvey who is pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ in York and has met and heard Pastor Wright speak.
I would like to advance this dialogue of race today; not divide us further, so it is in that spirit that we offer this show. GS
Tuesday, March 25, 2008
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31 comments:
I was taught as a youngster that a "Lie" takes the airplane and the "Truth" takes the bus, meaning that lies arrive quickly and truth arrives later. This I believe is the case in this matter. The comments were taken out of context. I urge you and all listeners to listen to the whole message and you will find out that when taken in context, the sermon was not hateful. The GD sermon was about government and God, not just America. In this case, like so many others, the media found what seemed like great cannon fodder to launch, and most people's only source of information comes from TV. This is much like the passage of scripture that a lot of pastors take out of context, "Money is the root of all evil." Taken in context, the passage says "THE LOVE OF MONEY, is the root of all evil." Check the context, if you really want to understand this issue.
MJ
If you missed the show, you missed what I thought was one of the best ever aired from Mainstreet.
I find it astonishing that the media is so afraid of offending the black community that they (and you) are willing to accept or make excuses for the hog wash spewed by Mr. (he doesn't deserve the title of Rev.) Wright. This man is a BIGOT, pure and simple, in context or out! The black community had a man fired because he said "nappy ho" in a joking manner but will defend the blatant racial hate speech of this man. He ought to be arrested for insighting racial hatred and then deported to some other "GD" country. It wasn't just in one speech, it was many.
I don't give a penny to causes I don't believe in, so if someone gives $22,000 in one year, that says loud and clear that they support the beliefs of that establishment. Obama gave a political speech to cover his tracks and get elected--and he did trash his grandmother. Racism is alive and thriving in this country because of people like Wright, Jackson and Fericon. In all my 59 years, I never once heard hatred shouted from a pulpit with thousands of people shouting back “Amen”. Until we can forget we are black and white, pink or purple, we will not have harmony. I would have the same feelings if the minister were white.
And the Clintons wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the nose. How could there be anyone in America that doesn’t know that by now?
Excellent show today.
Sorry to say I missed the first hour.
Also, an excellent comment by anonymous.
I listened to Wright's comments when they were first published as incendiary and found them appropriate------he wasn't damning America----he was damning sin: abusing one another, causing violence to one another, using power to cause harm.
He was damning sin in America---(this is probably the first time in America a preacher has done this by the way. Someone should call the Guinness people.)
The idiots who took his comments out of context and have since levied an entire condemnation against everything associated with Wright including the congregation and Obama - - - are mindless sorts, Jerry Springer guests and audience candidates, racists, and just plain ignorant.
And the fires have been stoked by the idiots who appear as concerned radio talk show hosts such as Limbaugh and Hannity, Beck, Savage, and that ilk.
Charlie Gerow did the same thing on Friday. Anything to tear down the Democrats, to weaken them.
To 'swiftboat' them.
I hate prejudice and hypocrisy.
Hate it.
I was referring to the first anonymous.
Not the racist second anonymous.
Just curious, how was the 2nd Anonymous racist?
Pretty much every other word, Jay.
His remark that he 'would have the same feelings if the pastor was white' is pure bullshit.
Jacque,
For a guy with such an extensive vocabulary, it would seem that "bs" would be beneath you on a blog. It's nice to know you drop your guard and become a little primal now and then. Congrats! GS
Gary,
"BULLSHIT" is the perfect term to describe bullshit, and it's an honest term since bulls shit a lot.
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) :
bullshit [ˈbulʃit] noun, interjection
(also bull) (slang) nonsense; lies; exaggeration
Example: That's bullshit!; Bullshit! Do you expect me to believe that? Arabic: كَلِمةٌ تَعَجُّبِيَّةٌ تعني: كَذِب! )
Chinese (Simplified): （俚）胡说
Chinese (Traditional): （俚）胡說
Czech: nesmysl, kecy, hovno
Danish: sludder; vrøvl; vås
Estonian: lollus, jama
Hungarian: rizsa, sóder
Italian: balle
Lithuanian: nesąmonė, kvailystė
Russian: дерьмо; враки
Spanish: chorradas
Turkish: saçma, zırva
I read that the word actually derived from the Olde French word "boul" which means "false talk, fraud, nonsense" and the modern Icelandic word "bull" which means the same.
I would think "COWSHIT" would be perfectly acceptable if the person addressed is female, but for some reason it never caught on in our lexicon.
Didn't you have the "NO BS ZONE" for quite a while on the show . . .
?
Were you referring to "Bug Snot" perhaps?
Seems duplicitous to say "BS" for years and not actually say what it stands for. . ..
Gary,
I've heard only parts of your programs the last few days. I appreciate your even handed approach concerning the Jeremiah Wright situation. However,Has the following point been discussed---Why don't we get Jeremiah Wright on your program or has he been on other programs so we can hear his response to all the questions we would like answered? This would tell me something about his character.
Dave
Gary,
I've heard only parts of your programs the last few days. I appreciate your even handed approach concerning the Jeremiah Wright situation. However,Has the following point been discussed---Why don't we get Jeremiah Wright on your program or has he been on other programs so we can hear his response to all the questions we would like answered? This would tell me something about his character.
Dave
It is sadly interesting that the segment of the Rev Wrights’s clip about “God damn Americs” are discussed and played ad nauseum over the last week or so, yet almost to a person, you have not heard people say they have heard the entire sermon.
I always get suspicious of motives when I hear something like this getting continual playback on talk radio and wonder if there is more to it than what it appears. It much reminds me of the “swifboating” done to Kerry – same deal there.
I too had the same gut reaction when I heard the sermon snippet and had all the same reactions that most caller-ins have expressed.
What gripes me and what I started to say was that for all the time spent on this I bet no more than a small percent ever tried to find the whole transcript or video. It was relatively easy to find. I listened to the video on YouTube since I wanted to hear it vs read it. While I still don’t like Rev Wright’s choice of words, it put it in an entirely different light.
But, then this is likely what the people that keep this going is hoping will happen. People are pretty much lazy when it comes to digging deeper and the political pundits understand it. Funny how we can take the time to listen to the same clip over and over or discuss it incessantly but most will not take the time to read or hear the entire thing.
As I said, the full version of the sermon can be found on You Tube, but I am betting most won’t take the time.
Why does that not surprise me ?
jacqueitch: "The idiots who took his comments out of context and have since levied an entire condemnation against everything associated with Wright including the congregation and Obama..."
It shouldn't take context, 20 minutes, or 20 years for a reasonable intellegent person to identify the hatred of a racist, self-serving bigot, but that is just my point of view. I realize that those who agree with the evil statements of racial division may take longer, or they may never accept such statements as being the evil that it is."
"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." (Matthew 24:10-13)
JMO: "It is sadly interesting that the segment of the Rev Wrights’s clip about “G- d- Americs” are discussed and played ad nauseum over the last week or so, yet almost to a person, you have not heard people say they have heard the entire sermon."
Exodus 20:7 says, "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
When a so-called minister directly contradicts the God that they "claim" to server, then among the community of faith there should be no doubt about who that minister is really serving.
FYI, the bible also says, "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves." (2 Peter 2:1)
Accepting scripture and the Word of God really takes faith. I would only expect a person of faith to fully understand the extreme nature of Wrights offense. Hopefully those who read these comments (if not today) will one day have the faith to understand.
JMO" "It much reminds me of the “swifboating” done to Kerry – same deal there."
And just like the claims against John Kerry, this too will stand the test of time and not be proven factually incorrect.
JMO: "As I said, the full version of the sermon can be found on You Tube, but I am betting most won’t take the time."
No matter how you attempt to frame it, evil is evil. The only context needed is a preacher said these words in a pulpit. There may be some that try to analyze, rationalize, and justify Wrights statements as well as why Cain killed Abel, but some people are willing to accept these things as the evil that they are. Just as Cain was punished for his act, so shall Mr. Wright.
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)
Obama's relationship with Wright is not guilt by association, but guilt my MEMBERSHIP. Anon said it perfectly, "if someone gives $22,000 in one year, that says loud and clear that they support the beliefs of that establishment." Obama made the CHOICE to join that church, and get married by Wright. If Obama lacks the judgment to make informed decisions in his personal life, the he really brings into question his ability informed decisions as POTUS.
BTW. For those of you of faith that attend church. If you preacher's statements conflict the scripture, then I strongly urge you to trust in the Word of God and ditch the preacher. Don't try to reason with the preacher, because I know from experience that they will say anything to justify their false teachings.
I was in that situation a couple of years ago. I've left that church, and I have never looked back. If Obama had the faith to remove himself from the church of a preacher that he now claims he disagrees with, then this would be a non-issue. If he stayed with Wrights church for "political" reasons, then he has sold his soul for earthly gain.
I even MORE believe that people are not taking the time to hear the whole sermon.
JMO: "I even MORE believe that people are not taking the time to hear the whole sermon."
Unless there is a part where he pulls back his flesh to reveal a demon and says, "I'm going back to Hell, and I'm taking all of you with me," there isn't anything he could say to justify his statements. FWIW after seeing the parts that I have already seen, if he pulled back his flesh it wouldn't surprise me. lol
For the record...
I completely support the right of all people to worship or not worship as they choose. I support the right of individuals to voice their opinions, and to support the candidate of their choice. I even support Mr. Wrights right to say G- D- America and I support the rights of Obama and those on this blog who agree with Mr. Wright to attend his church and shout A-men with the rest of the congregation.
Although I have elected to exercise my right to disagree with Mr. Wright and Mr. Obama, I support their right to do as they please. Even though he may now choose distance himself from Mr. Wright, it is my decision to exercise my right to withhold my support. It is my believe that his choice of churches is just the tip of the iceberg of reasons to not support Barak Obama.
God Bless America
http://www.obamanation.com/
From obamanation.com
"Christians for Social Justice shares the concern for other social justice issues like poverty, education, health care, fair wages, and the war in Iraq. However, America will not make progress on these important issues without addressing the wholesale slaughter of the pre-born."
Methinks your arrow is in the wrong direction. Abortion is not a cause of the other injustices on your list. Low wages, poverty, lack of access to quality health care, low education all contribute to people feeling the need to have an abortion.
====
On another note, it is a disservice to Scripture, the community (online or otherwise), and, frankly, to God to cavalierly quote bits of the Bible or not care to examine the context of another's words. The kind of judgment put forth here is it's own form of evil.
Eric,
You unfortunately have proven my point. People with closed minds are just that.
Yahweh also reminds us "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".
RB: "On another note, it is a disservice to Scripture, the community (online or otherwise), and, frankly, to God to cavalierly quote bits of the Bible or not care to examine the context of another's words. The kind of judgment put forth here is it's own form of evil."
There is no disservice in quoting scripture. I provide the quote, and allow the reader to form their own judgment based on their faith (if they have any.) Maybe one small quote is enough to prompt greater exploration by someone who otherwise wouldn't be likely to do so. You are free to disregard my comments at your discretion. I wouldn't be the least bit offended.
I haven't examined Mr. Wrights entire sermon, but I am can say with almost complete certainty that my statements are more scripturally based than the evil racist hatred that he calls the word of God.
JMO: "Yahweh also reminds us "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"."
I will keep that mind if I ever decide to I pick up a rock. Can you please provide the chapter and verse so that I can read it for myself?
RB. In reference to me providing "cavalierly quote bits of the Bible", I just wanted to say that sometime that is all a person is able to comprehend or digest at a time.
As a child, I learned very basic biblical concepts and lessons, such as love, trust, and faith. Like an infant that can only digest milk, you learn what your digestive system can handle.
As I grew in faith, and experienced lifes ups and downs, I learned more complex lessons. Lessons like "unwaivering faith in the face of adversity." I also learned that faith comes about not by assigning blame and voting for some politician to remove the obstacle, but by faith that God will guide you thru the obstacle.
Mr. Wrights messages are about blaming and hating the white people who they believed are the cause of problems in the black community. Personal responsibility and faith in God's ability to overcome aren't part of his equation.
JMO made a statement that started "Yahweh also reminds us..." but failed to provide the reference. Did he not provide the reference because he doesn't know it? Did he read it for himself, or is it something he heard someone say? I don't know. I do know that when you don't read the Bible for yourself, you are more likely to believe anything preachers like Mr. Wright will tell you. This may be Obama's biggest mistake.
In closing, I will leave you with one last quote...
"This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (1 Corinthians 2:13-15)
May the Force be with you.
Eric - remember that the word "judge" is being used in that scripture to mean "try" or "examine".
The "spiritual man" tries and examines things before praying for confirmation of their conclusions.
If we're going to use that in the context of an election, the "spiritual man" would be expected to research the candidates and then present his conclusions to God through prayer and fasting.
Eric,
Besides continuting to prove my point, you are also exposing yourself as not much of a Bible reader or scholar .
The passage is from John 8:7. I am amazed you seen to have never heard of it.
Doug Walters: "If we're going to use that in the context of an election, the "spiritual man" would be expected to research the candidates and then present his conclusions to God through prayer and fasting."
In presenting ones conculsion to God, or seeking guidance while in the process of doing research, the important thing is the spritual man is still depending on God's help to make the right decision. I will re-read you comments and take them under advisement. Thanks for a sharing a point of view I may not have considered.
JMO: "Besides continuting to prove my point, you are also exposing yourself as not much of a Bible reader or scholar. The passage is from John 8:7. I am amazed you seen to have never heard of it."
I've never claimed to be a bible scholar. I am just a man on a spritual journey. I only claim to an authority on one subject. That is myself, and my beliefs. Sure, I am familiar with the passage and could find the it with very little difficult, however I just wanted YOU to find it. That way both of us benifit from reading it from the source.
Geez, if there was ever a thread that re-inforced my contention there needs to be a separation of Church and State, this baby's it.
I subscribe to no organized religion for good reason. Yet somehow I've been able to lead a moral and ethical life and consider myself to a responsible human being. Amazing isn't it?
Fred: "Geez, if there was ever a thread that re-inforced my contention there needs to be a separation of Church and State, this baby's it."
It is impossible to separate the moral standards of those who are guided by faith and religious principals from using those standards when conducting affairs of the state. Unless you are considering religious persecution, keeping the moral standard that are based in religion out of the state can never been a reality.
Eric,
YOU are the one that keeps quoting scripture here.
For a person so filled with faith, I find it interesting that you especially will not take the time to listen to the whole sermon.
That is why I posted the piece that I did about "casting the first stone".
JMO: "For a person so filled with faith, I find it interesting that you especially will not take the time to listen to the whole sermon."
I don't need to go to jail to determine that I don't want to go there, and I don't need to hear anything more from Mr. Wright to determine that there will be nothing gained from exposure to his evil hatred. I avoid evil and prepare for it just in case it finds me. I don't go looking for it. I have "faith" that God will give me the wisdom to recognize the evil, and to not allow it the opportunity to had a negative influence in my life. If I didn't have faith, then I might find Mr. Wrights statements acceptable.
Eric,
Well, all I can say is good luck with your search for salvation.
JMO: "Well, all I can say is good luck with your search for salvation."
The same to you, my friend. Differing opinions and points of view doesn't make us enemies, it makes us different. As always, it has been a pleasure and I will see you on future post. My contribution to this thread is completed.
Thank God.
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